Welcome to the site for The Shakespeareans of Tamanend Park.

Please refer to the posting "Introduction" below
and examine the end of the page for maps
and details about special events,
such as the parade
or other events
that may occur remotely
from the stage
at the Park.

Cinema Under the Stars is left at the top of the page because the films, which are intended to be shown on alternating weekends, require frequent updating.

The show-times are approximate
because of the changing sunset time and go up when it is dark enough.

You are advised to arrive early to choose a good spot in the field. We have concession items available and in the future may have blankets available for rental.

Be sure to bring insect repellent, although we do use citronella to cut back on mosquitoes, you will need to protect yourself.

Refer to the IMS Virtual Studio for a countdown to the current film showing.

In the Event of Rain;

Live Performances at the stage are canceled if the sky is not clear and the ground dry by 1:00 p.m. with no forecast of rain for the remainder of the day.

For Cinema Under the Stars the ground must be dry by 5:00 p.m. and no forecast for rain that evening.

Unless otherwise specified there is no rain date.

Monday, November 14, 2011

The future of productions at The Meadow Amphitheatre

We have have a number of years of presenting theatre & film at the park, 
some with a good audience some without.   

  • Cinema Under the Stars has not had the kind of response that justifies continuing the effort. At most we have had 28 people attend a showing. Often we have had less than 10 and I have shown more than one film for one person. As much as I want to believe that this will improve with time, and I do believe this, I cannot bear the cost of presenting these films any longer.  We have had a few sponsors who have assisted, but not near enough. If you care to be a sponsor and assist in continuing this program and the associated publicity then please do let me know.  The policy now is that no film will be shown unless it is paid for well in advance of the show date. Details will be posted on the Cinema Under the Stars web site.
  • The Shakespeareans of Tamanend Park continue to be more theoretical than actual. There are a number of regular performers, technicians and patrons who are quite interested and available to participate in projects that we present, but I have found it quite difficult to obtain sufficient commitment from enough people on a consistent basis. This is something that required, not only to produce results, but to do so without a great deal of effort and uncertainty. So it is that future productions will depend on more producers who are willing to take up the yoke and join the effort.
  • (I have been building on this since 2008 and I am feeling very tired and unenthusiastic right now.  This is a very lot of work and it has been so without due compensation for me. In fact, I have paid out a phenomenal amount of money and time, which I am no longer willing to do. So if you Shakespeareans out there want this to continue, then you need to step up to the plate, join the effort and show your commitment. I may get enthused again, who knows?)
  • Other productions at The Meadow Amphitheatre are something that I encourage producers to consider. The stage and facilities are developing and I will be focusing my attention of refining the stage for the future of it's stability in the park.  My goal is to rebuild the stage out of stone, so that it is maintenance free. The supplies that we presently have, are available to other productions for their use at the stage.  If more projects come into the stage we will continue to develop the resources for the stage, however the stage will be entering into a more commercial operation to ensure it's long term sustainability, so use of the stage will involve a cost to the producer. This is negotiable however. I will continue to address these issues in future posting.

Film production in Tamanend Park

We are very pleased to report that the stage at Tamanend Park was used as a shooting location for this surprisingly well crafted short film by a local filmmaker Thomas Lynskey.  We showed this film to very good response last July 4th weekend at Cinema Under the Stars.

Other films have been shooting in the park and if we are provided with information and/or links we will post those as well.

We have considered producing a film festival at the park and are continuing dialogue to that effect.

Saturday, October 1, 2011


Well, here we are again!

We have to cancel.  

I am very bummed but the conditions at the park and the anticipated rains make it foolish to proceed.

Here is a severe example of what we are dealing with, The other stage has it's issues also.

 So this effect is translated to the trails and the remainder of the field also. Any further rain, although it may be tolerable in terms of getting rained on, would be disastrous to the enjoyment of all involved. So we will plan another attempt after we consider our options.  Below are further thoughts that I emailed out to our members, participants, and interested parties.

I will be working to produce this at an indoor venue.  The season is over at the park.  Although we might be able to find another date, I am not available for the next few weeks and by then it will be too cold.  So, I will keep you informed about what I am able to come up with for a venue and a likely time. I am thinking that if we can combine an event with a preparatory gathering for "Pirates... "  that might be the best approach. I cannot see anything happening until January or February, what with the holidays, but if the venue I have in mind fits in sooner then I will take a poll and see who might like to do something.

We have a program, we did publicity work, we have a group ready and willing to do something; maybe we should insert that program into the "Cabaret" time slot and/or enhance the program somewhat.  Either the Cabaret time-slot or sometime just before Thanksgiving might be worth considering.  After Thanksgiving is just too busy for everyone.

  I can continue to look into Pendelton Hall and if you have another venue, then we can transpose this effort there, whatever seems to work.


  Sorry everybody, the weather has not been cooperative.  Let me know what you all think.

Friday, September 30, 2011

Discussion: Performance Status

 Here is the latest discussion regarding
the status of performing under the threat of rain
for this weekend of October 1st 2011.

An Afternoon and Evening with 
Gilbert & Sullivan

You can join the conversation by following this blog and making a comment.


NEW LOCATION 3:17 pm Friday 9/30/11

Well, it seems we now have an alternative location for the concert! The Lions Grove Stage.  It is located out by Second Street Pike and it will not be in use tomorrow.  So if it does rain and make The Meadow Amphitheater unusable, we can use this other stage for our performances, which is covered , has bleacher seating, and less drainage issues.  We can still have our picnic there also.  So even if it does rain tonight, we will still have the concert.  The film is another question.  If I can rig the screen in time, then we can also show the film there.  That will need to be determined tomorrow morning.

Please pass this word around, as I will be unable to do more than this for the time being.  AG

UPDATE: 12:00 Friday 9/30/11

Taken from the latest posting on Facebook;

Here's the deal on the performance in Tamanend Park -

If it rains tonight, the performance is canceled until further notice. 

I cannot confirm our use of the community center, the director is not available. 

Up until today, all the forecasts were favorable for this weekend. If it remains sunny for most of the day tomorrow then the field will dry up and we will be good to go. If it rains anytime between now and performance time we will be in trouble. What a drag! 

To all those performers who are involved in this - I am very sorry that we have to be exposed to such uncertainty. This taxes the joy of doing this and put a great strain on our enjoyment of the process.  If we find ourselves faced with cancellation, then I will work at producing this event again at a later date in a venue which does not cause us this grief.  

To any theaters/indoor venues looking for a program - we are prepared to make a presentation and would consider doing so under the right conditions. Do inquire with me and I will see what can be done. 


Yes Laurie,

   Thank you. I have seen conflicting reports about the weather. More seem to indicate low chance of rain (30%) and nice weather, albeit windy.  We have faced this before when the weather suddenly cleared and was very nice, especially when the prediction was in the low percentage numbers.  The field in The Meadow Amphitheatre was very wet yesterday, to the point where if we do not have sunny weather, enough for it to dry up, then it would not be good.

   There are a lot of people involved in making this happen, and we got rained out once already, which is very frustrating.  We have a ton of potato salad.

   Our choices seem to be continuing with The Meadow Amphitheatre in the hope that it will work out, switching locations (which I am looking into today, having forgotten about that in the fray of preparations, sorry), postponing another week or possibly two (depending on what everybody wants to do), or canceling the fall presentation altogether.

   I personally feel that if the weather fails us, that postponing a week or two would be best, because we have been building expectations for both the performers and the audience. That may give us time to make sure the field is in good repair after all this rain, but it is also disappointing after all this work we have done.

   By the way- I was working on the two solos I had planned on doing, with Shawn playing for me and I nailed them both, easily, every-time. So don't worry about that.

   I will be seeking to make arrangements for another location this morning. Last time, we arranged for the Community Center, but I do not yet know if that is an option for us. If not, then a postponement might be in order, but I would not do that until the last minute, in the event that- we do not have torrential rains tonight and tomorrow turns out wonderful . If we have torrential rains tonight. Then it will have to be postponed, because the field is just too wet and it will not dry up in one morning of sun.

     I will post the results on the web page and on Facebook, along with this letter (if I can as a comment).  I suggest that you consider continuing the dialogue there if you are hooked up.

   I would appreciate your votes on what you would like to do. If consensus says we move it to a later date, then that is what we will do. We risk loosing our performers that's what happened last time with George and Jim, but we might gain some.  The Playbill has been printed, but I have not done an insert, which was to have been the credits, which means I need everyone to confirm their involvement and give me a one or two line statement to go with it. (contact info or something like that) We don't have to have that, but it might be nice, if there is enough time.

  I will be going to a sing in Center City tonight  (put on by The Philadelphia Opera Company) and working in a composing session with Shawn today, so I will be gone and unavailable from noon until tomorrow morning.  My cell number is 215-292-9787.  I don't answer numbers I don't recognize or have in my Phonebook, so if that is the case for you you will need to leave a message, in which event I will put you in my Phonebook. If you want me to have your number in my Phonebook, then call me so I can do that. My home number is 215-322-1566 there is a phone machine on that line.

  Again, the final determination will be posted on The Shakespearean Journal. I will also try to follow up with an email. Feel free to continue this dialogue without me to get a consensus on what everybody would like to do and by tomorrow we will come up with an answer.

  This is the big bummer about working with an Amphitheatre! Uncooperative weather.

  I do think that we can make this work to our benefit to develop a good sized audience and an awareness of what we are doing and if for no other reason we may get an audience for pity's sake, what with all these travails.

  Thank you all for working hard and hanging in there as we try to do this, when if finally comes together it will be a gas.

Keep on Truckin'


Monday, September 26, 2011

Anticipated Playbill for Gilbert & Sullivan Performances

This schedule may change
but this is a selection of songs
it seems we will be able to sing.

These pages are set so you can print them on an 8.5"x11" sheet.

Saturday, September 24, 2011

Autumn Leaves Performance Festival

Cinema Under The Stars
for further scheduling information


 September 24th

The showing of
"Shakespeare In Love'
"Spontaneous Shakespeare"
has been 

 October 1st

An Afternoon & Evening 
with Gilbert & Sullivan 
with The Bucks County Gilbert & Sullivan Society and Friends
will be accompanied by

a picnic/rehearsal for performers & volunteers at 3:00pm

followed at 5:00 pm by a live performance of numerous favorites
a showing of the film 
"Topsy Turvy
 at 6:30 pm

 October 2nd

The anticipated rescheduling of a performance by
The Village Renaissance Players
with their shows
"Crime & Punishment" & "Cryanose"
October 2nd
with a showing of the film
"Cryano De Bergerac"
as part of 
The Autumn Leaves 
Performance Festival

has been

Tuesday, September 20, 2011

The Old Dominion Society

On September 18th we did a reenactment of  

"The Consecration of George Washington" 

"... my fervent supplications to that Almighty Being..."

at the Old Monastery
 Wissahickon Valley Park.

I had the honor of performing as The Priest of Wissahickon in this reenactment of the moment when George Washington was given the mission of becoming the Deliver of the New World.  It was a wonderful presentation that delighted all of the many people who were there.

Last year I had the pleasure of participating in "A Concert of Sacred Music" at Washington Chapel in Valley Forge Park, performing as The Marque De Lafayette & John Hancock in that presentation.  It was overwhelmingly moving and superb.  To my great delight I have been asked to participate again this year and there is no chance that I will not do it, unless I am dead!

Also, for your information, I am working with The Old Dominion society to bring this "Concert of Sacred Music" to Southampton's Old School Meetinghouse, which is situated directly across from the entrance to Tamanend Park.  Next July 4th we will be inviting local talent to participate in what we are planning to be a costumed event.   All participants, both performers and audience will be expected to be in colonial garb for this event.  So if you want to have a "ball" then start getting your colonial outfit together for next years event.  This is really an opportunity that you won't want to miss.  We may do the concert twice, one for costumed participants and one for people who are not comfortable being in costume, that is yet to be seen.  The cost of tickets has not been determined, as we have not done the budget yet.  Keep a watch here for more information and if you'd like to help with planning, producing, or performing in this event, please let me know. AG

Tuesday, September 6, 2011

Tamanend Park Day, September 10th

 Tamanend Park Day 
September 10th 
10:00 am until 3:00 pm

A day of performances  including;
Assorted events for the entire family
Hayrides thru the Park
Face Painting & Balloon sculpting
Petting Zoo
Reptile Display
Live music thru-out the day
a Colonial Encampment 
WWII demonstarations
Food Booths
Friends of Tamanend Park Activities

and an evening of film
Cinema Under the Stars

join us for a showing of

Join us in
The Meadow Amphitheatre 
The Village Renaissance Players 
 grace the stage at various times 
between  10a - 2p

At noon on that day 
they will be presenting their new production 
based on 
Cyrano De Bergerac

Come by earlier and see their antics with
"Crime & Punishment"

Here is their press release for their anticipated performances at 
The Village Renaissance Faire
In Wrightstown this fall


Village Renaissance Players
perform at the
Village Renaissance Faire
September 17 and 18, 2011
11 a.m. to 6 p.m.
Grange Fair Grounds, Penns Park Road, Wrightstown

Contact: Ann Cole, aka Feisty Fiona
215 579 6379

Catch “CYRANO!” a five act play in twenty minutes, during this year’s Village Renaissance Faire on September 17 and 18, from 11 a.m. to 6 p.m.,
Grange Fair Grounds, Penns Park Road,Wrightstown.

Based on the play “Cyrano de Bergerac” by Edmond Rostand, this romantic comedy/tragedy will be more comedy than tragedy.

Watch as they duel with words and with swords!

The Village Renaissance Players will perform this amazing, dazzling feat twice each day, so make sure you are there for their morning and afternoon performances.

Swordfights! Love triangles! Witty poetry! It can’t be missed!

In addition, this fabulous group of players will perform a crime and punishment skit involving scandal, intrigue and more swordplay!

Look for the Village Renaissance Players as you enter the Faire!
Here they are at last year's
Tamanend Park Day
"The Princess Bride"
and a bit from Monty Python
regarding some shrubbery

Keep a watch out for
the last weekend in September 
the First weekend in October
as we  continue to develop and present
"The Autumn Leaves Performance Festival"

Thursday, July 21, 2011

Rebuilding the Stage in Tamanend Park

*  keep watch on this site as it is *

The Meadow Amphitheatre
is located 
Tamanend Park
Southampton, Pennsylvania

The sign at the entrance-way to Tamanend Park
An effort is under way 
to rebuild the stage 
out of stone

We have been working since 2008 
to develop an Amphitheater
in Tamanend Park

This is a summary of how the stage came to be and what our current goals are with the stage.

*The Selection of the Location*

The very beginning of an idea
When we started this idea, we thought we would place the stage here,
the second location we considered. 

This location is actually behind where the concessions stand is now.

We realized that: this in location the sunlight 
would be in the eyes of the audience and 
it was not good for audience proximity to the stage.
The  taper of the hill is down and away, to put the stage here
would have caused the audience to look upward to the stage,
a very undesirable and ultimately unsuccessful proximity to use.

This photo shows the view from where the stage would have been 
had we placed it in this location.

A wide view of a VERY HOT Mid-day in July, when we did "Midsummer"
 The first location we considered 
was to the right of the stage,
(left in this photograph)
 at the foot of the tapering slope.

That location is VERY nice 
for positioning an audience  to a stage, 
and it has an excellent proximity to the sun. 

So that location would be a good place to put an amphitheater,
should a larger stage be desired.

However, it is in the middle of the roadway,
(which could work to an advantage for various reasons)
but the sound qualities of that position are very poor
and would most certainly require electronic support.

Still, it might be worth considering 
as an alternative, or additional location,
as in upper and lower staging areas.

This might be desirable as a means to accommodate
different size and types of events.

The Beginning of Construction;

Here are some images taken by Rich Bomze
when we first started setting up the stage in 2008

The Southampton Public Works 
came over to my office, picked up the stage platforms
and delivered them to the meadow 
where we were to begin construction of a stage

As you can see the foundation of the stage is cinder blocks,
albeit a bit more securely configured than you see here.

Ratty stage technician at no extra cost.

 After it was basically positioned and leveled,
I painted it with what I thought would turn out grey,
a mixture of old paint and new paint 
provided courtesy of MAB in Southampton.

King Richard Bomze

who was instrumental in keeping the energy going early on
and who insisted that we needed a name
The Shakespeareans of Tamanend Park.

He is now touring his photography around at various galleries.

*Our Present Location*

A recent view of the stage and concession counter

The location that we chose for the current stage has VERY good acoustics
requiring little or no electronic support and
works quite well, in terms of the entrance-way to the field.

We selected it over the lower field for that reason 
and also so that we could develop this stage  
out of the way of the main area, especially the roadway
thereby,  being less offensive to people who might object.

The current  position of the stage is excellent for 
early evening, spring and fall performances.

It became clear, last summer,  that mid-day  performances
can be brutal in the hot summer sun 
on both the performers and the audience.

So during the summer, 
performances should not take place 
until the evening. 

During the Spring & Fall that does not seem to be a problem.

*Cinema Under The Stars*

As a means of showing you the concession stand,

The American Shakespeare at Tamanend Park?


We have an opportunity to host 
The American Shakespeare Center
The Meadow Amphitheatre
with their production of

William Shakespeare's
"A Mid Summer's Night Dream"
in the Fall of 2012

To do so we will need to raise a significant
amount of funding to cover their expenses
and to plan the necessary accommodations.

If anyone would like to join in 
the fund raising and planning effort 
for that project, 
please make that fact known
and come by the stage sometime to discuss it...
or send me an email.

Arthur Greisiger

Shakespeare for Kids

Here is this year's offering for 
Shakespeare in the Park's
 program for kids

It is designed and directed by
Maret Genzlinger

Last year's the program was very well received and attended.

The staff at Tamanend Park and all those who attended
were very impressed and delighted by the program.

It nominated for an award within The Pennsylvania Park System.

Do join us again, for this most excellent way to 
bring your kids into the world of theatre
by introducing them to 

The Master Playwright;
William Shakespeare

click on the image to print out the poster
We invite you to hang this poster in the areas where other fold will see it.

You are welcome to stop by the stage in 

Tamanend Park's
The Meadow Amphitheater

is a facility 
that we are striving to build 
for the benefit of the community.

We invite your participation
and assistance
in any number of ways.

Films from London's Globe Theatre at Regal Cinemas

Here's a flyer from 
Regal Cinema in Warrington 
for those of you interested in 
seeing some of
William Shakespeare's
produced on his home turf

Monday, June 27, 2011

The Southampton Days Parade

 We will not be walking in 
The Southampton Days Parade 
this year. 

I'm exhausted, burned out  and simply cannot muster up the energy to do it. For those of you who want to walk please do so. I did not register The Shakespeareans of Tamanend Park with the parade.

I've been very busy with Cinema Under the Stars , the next film will be on July 2nd, come by if you want to talk about the parade or anything else.

Work on two Gilbert & Sullivan shows "Princess Ida" & "HMS Pinafore" took up most of the spring/summer planning resources for Shakespeare in the Park & the Parade, so this season will be focused on the films at the stage.  Performers who want to take the stage before the movies are welcome to do so at any time. Just show up an hour before the film.

I/we just spent a great deal of energy presenting a world premiere reading of "Nunc Licet: a stage play about Emanuel Swedenborg"

Work is continuing on writing "The Gnomes of New Hope: a stage musical" and that is also talking a lot of energy to do.

 I hope that we will be able to have a picnic at the stage sometime soon, it will just not be during the parade this year and the picnic will be for those who are or want to be part of the efforts in Tamanend Park.

Sorry about that. I'm too pooped to pop. AG

Thursday, May 12, 2011

Update: Spring 2011

  •     This years efforts for a Spring production have been relatively non-existent because I am currently involved in three other spring shows that are not Shakespearean.  However the work is continuing on planning and stage improvements.  
  • We are working to construct a trolley system for the backstage area so that we can quickly and easily  change the backdrops, we are expanding and improving the shop space we have in the barn, and we are planning performance events to go along with the Cinema Under the Stars program for this year.
  •    After the past three years of effort, with some successes and some failures, I have concluded that offering the stage to performers before the film showings is the best way to keep The Meadow Amphitheatre active during the season. therefore I will not be planning any grand events for The Shakespeareans unless I have a few more folks join in to make those events happen.
  • The July Forth Parade will only happen if more folks join in the planning and funding effort.  If you want to walk in the parade, you must let me know and give me a definite commitment, telling me what you are able to do.  We have some folks who want to do the parade, but I am not certain we have enough yet. We may offer simply a picnic at the stage, but walking in the parade would be very nice. Last year I paid for costumes for people, but this year, unless we have a costumer, you will need to get your own.  I may send out a notice about that.  The horse and carriage from last year will need to be paid for up front, as I do not want to take on a debt in that regard and I still have an amount due on account.  I  have not made an effort at fund raising for the parade, due to other projects that are demanding my time.  With at least two other people working on the parade planning and fund raising I think we can do it.   We will be showing "The Patriot" on July 2nd with Cinema Under the Stars, so any colonials who want to walk in the parade and join us would be fine. Costuming does not need to be Renniassance. Just so we have costumed people in the parade.  We are planning a Colonial Concert of Sacred Music for next year's Forth of July festivities. You are welcome to get involved with that. We need to build a troupe of singers and Actors for that event.
    •   We are discussing building a Board of Directors for The Shakespeareans of Tamanend Park because we need that in order to seek a 501c Not-for-profit status.  There have been numerous offers for funding but it is all contingent upon receiving this tax-exempt staus.
    • We now have the opportunity to bring The American Shakespeare Centre's touring shows into The Meadow Amphitheatre. This will cost a substantial amount to support their tour, but it is worth the effort and we should come together to make that happen.  I will be producing a fund raising document specifically for that purpose and we may make a larger festival of it if we can.  Possibly seeking to include the Pennsylvainia Shakespeare Festival in the event. 
    • We will be working on expanding the stage to accommodate this. Not so much the size of the stage but the facilities and flexibility of the backdrops. One current goal is to rebuild the backdrop frame so that it is strong enough for us to  make it into a balcony from which we can perform.  I will post pictures of the backdrop we need to start working on so anyone wishing to help with this will understand what we need to do.
    If you care about seeing
    Shakespeare in the Park
    continue and grow, 
    then I implore you to get involved 
    in any way you can.

      Tuesday, February 8, 2011

      2011 Study Program

      This years study program will be  
      "Romeo & Juliet"

      We will be showing the  1968
      Franco Zeffirelli
      this summer

      Thespians are invited to begin preparing material
      to present prior to the film.

      We will be opening the stage an hour and a half
      before the film showings this summer
      for performances.

      We also expect to be showing
      Henry the Fifth
      Richard the Third
      Shakespeare in Love

      Please refer to the web site for
      "Cinema Under the Stars" 
      for more details about the film programs

      We also expect to be showing numerous
      Musical Theatre films
      such as;

      West Side Story
      and others

      and would like to have
      local groups
      some of that material.

      Keep an eye out for postings on the summer program.

      Monday, January 17, 2011

      1/17/2011 Current Thoughts

      The Next Hard Copy of the Journal will focus on  Fund Raising and New Projects

      It's time for me to focus more on the next edition of the Journal. If you would like to have material included both here and in the hard copy, let me know and send something my way.

      The next edition of the journal will include a layout for installation of video systems and security camera in the Meadow Amphitheatre. If you'd like to be involved in the planning, installation an/or operation of those systems, please let me know.  Obviously, we will need to be raising the funds to do that and any help to do that will be most welcomed Beside the security advantages, this will allow us to record performances and post them live on-line.

      We will also be seeking funding for the Cinema Under the Stars Program, as I will not be funding that out of my pocket this year.  Look for discussion on that subject on that site, but that material will also be published in the next Edition of the Journal.

      Regarding Producing shows in The Meadow Amphitheatre 

      My goal is to maintain and develop the performance space and to create opportunities for organizations and producers to take advantage of the stage in Tamanend Park.

      Now, I do want the programs that other people produce to fall under the supervision of The Shakespearean of Tamanend Park as it pertains to using the stage, but I do not require all the programs to be of a Shakespearean nature.

      I do expect them to be presented with a good heart and have some degree of theatricality, at least the intent to honor the stage and not be excessively amateurish.  Programs should be presented in an orderly fashion and should have the proper number of management people involved.

      Producers will be expected to make a genuine effort to promote their events and not expect it to be done for them, although every effort will be made to promote thru email and web site information. Printed goods and published advertising will be the responsibility of the producers.

      The Board of Directors

      We will need to be establishing a Board of Directors for The Shakespeareans of Tamanend Park. We've had numerous requests that we get out Not-For-Profit status, mostly from organizations who want to help fund what we are doing.  I cannot do that alone and we do have a few folks who are helping and are willing to serve on the board, but we need more people who can do that. As I have said- my goal is to maintain/develop the facility, equipment & supplies and develop/supervise programs. The management aspects of the NFP are something that I do not want to take on and we will need a team of people to do that.  If I have hands-on people I can depend on, I will front that effort, but I will not advance in that degree without a solid core group.

      More later ...